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Thoughts About Te's Future

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#1
raidmax21

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Just a small post...

 

I and many others have spent countless hours on TE. A select few have built a platform and for our staff and me a lot of it is in unknown territory. Sure we can look at other networks to see what they have done, but for the most part, much of what they have created does not apply to TE. Our network is indeed unique. Unfortunately, this is where a key problem has formed. Faction networks simply don’t exist anywhere else with the size of ours. Sure there are other faction networks, but they are simply pvp faction servers within a minigame network, which don’t even remotely mirror what we have. When I think about why we don’t see other large faction networks, I think it’s due to the nature of what factions are and how it works. This has become our Achilles heel.

 

Factions in our v2 form was quite incredible. We built a massive community on a much smaller player base. This was due to the tight interactions and server cap. To get into TE, you had to be a VIP or REALLY want to play here since we only had 150 player slots and one single server. A player could represent only a single faction at any given time. This built a bond between faction members, like a tight knit guild of friends. This does not mean our server didn’t have issues, our memories are quite odd things. They constantly adjust and we tend to remember the good things over the bad, especially with video games. We all have this glowing memory of what V2 was, but when we look deeper, it had massive issues, it used to crash every 30min, its TPS was under 5 out of 20, meaning dead slow. And we didn’t even have mobs on this server at first. Our economy was shot and overinflated like crazy. Hackers everywhere and our biggest issue of all - it was not sustainable. The tech was constantly changing, Minecraft was updating, servers were updated and Minecraft as a game and as a company had changed so much and we were being left behind. Our expectation of what we were a part of changed. When I had the most fun in Minecraft, it was right in the beta around 1.7.3 (mc reset to v1.00 after the beta) This was because the Minecraft game and concept was so different, and the players I had been playing with were of a much older age. The game was more like rust back then; you build shit and people would attack it. Minecraft back then had a raw feel, a much different game. If I was to recreate a server of that era today, all and all, it would probably not be anywhere as fun. This is partly because our standard of design has changed and cannot be changed back with what Minecraft is now. Effectively, this is what v2 seems like when looking back at it from v3 today.
 

So what changed on our end since then?

We rebuilt our architecture from the ground up. Gee , I make it sound like nothing. What I really mean is, we rebuilt EVERYTHING from the ground up. It took us 3 attempts because the scale of what we were doing was so large. We were building a true factions network, not some simple ass minigame network, but a really living and breathing factions network. We tried to preserve the faction server and place it into this new network and this was not a simple undertaking. This new factions server in v3 mirrors what v2 looked like but we also overhauled a lot of things to improve it, like adding a pvp world and a new public mine. Under the hood, the plugins were overhauled to such an extent they do not resemble much of the old v2 plugins. It’s not an easy task putting this type of server into a network and have it connect with the rest. To this day I have never seen any other network come close to building a large factions network.

 

As v3 started to become more than just sketches, I put extra work into planning a network that put extra care on player interaction to fight what I feared and hated about minigame networks. They are hollow places with no player interaction. You go in, play a game and go out. It’s not a place you really make friends and so it doesn't create much of a community. So I planned our systems to fight this. We built the economy, tp, chat, inventories, perms, logins, and much more to all work across all servers, from one to another. As a whole, this did not preserve the factions system as it once was. As we advanced from v2 to v3, we effectively fragmented the community, one server became 4 and even though you could create a faction on all servers, all this really did was make the bond of players in each faction weaker. Think about it like this: You're playing a game, you have a friends list and a guild. All your friends play with you in this guild and one day that game, now lets you have 4 guilds. Well great, you can now have 4 set of friends? That’s bad, really bad. That tight group of friends just got a hell of a lot weaker and fragmented with less value.

 

More fragmentation

As we built the new shop world, it did exactly what we wanted it to. We had two issues to fix: Issue 1. Admin shop was not “game like”. It was all one boring place making your task super short. From a game design point of view, this is terrible. Just imagine if Skyrim had all it’s shops merged into 5 npc’s standing next to each other. Sure it makes it easy but it also kills the challenge and shortens the games life.

 

Issue 2: Faction shops in the worlds were incredibly huge places that had too many entities which killed server performance. The aim was to off-load the shops to a dedicated server built for such a thing. This would then take the load off the build servers. Just imagine a single build world such as v2 running this. It would be working 1% speed and be pretty much unplayable. This is what I mean about unsustainable. Anyway. Moving the shops to this world worked great, but also added to the fragmentation. Effectively removing one of the biggest aspects about a build world, their shops.

 

Next came the fall of TeamSpeak. TS is such a great tool. TE was built around it and a lot of people simply don't understand the impact of what it did for TE. It’s one thing to make a friend in-game, it’s another to talk to them every day in a voice channel with other mates. You form bonds with people you simply cannot, using just in-game chat. Our staff system was built around it. To become staff, you needed to be on TS to even be considered. With the rise of discord, this has done a few things. It formed a new type of text based community and killed most of TeamSpeak. We tried to ignore discord because It’s shit compared to TS, but it grew and became more accessible and easy to use than TS and thus it won out.

 

A lot of people say people are leaving or it’s not the same community as it once was,  This true but it’s not the whole story. People come and go, it has always been like this. I can count many friends that I made in v2 and left in v2. People grow up, they get bored, They get a job or new jobs and they move on. For the most part, staff and players didn’t make a dedicated post saying they are leaving, they would simply go inactive. Recently an admin made a leaving thread. Some of the other inactive staff saw that and also decided to make posts. If you saw how many staff we have had over the years we would need a library. Remember TE started in 2011 and we are about to hit 2018.

 

Now to address the drop in players. Almost 2 months ago an element in launchers update system became broken and cannot be fixed. This is due to a service we used being made obsolete by the company owning such service. As a result all the launchers downloaded from public locations could not longer update. About 98% of all downloads of the launcher are older versions. This means for a month we had almost no new players because the launcher they downloaded could not update to be played with the newer versions of MC, which the server uses. This was one issue that turned into a massive one. After that month, the new version of the launcher was only obtainable from launchers which updated to it before the system broke. Shortly after that we got blacklisted by Mojang. This means players cannot connect to our server using the official Minecraft client. Normally this would not have been an issue. A patch to bypass the blacklist would be sent out to the launcher, but since the update system is broken in all but the latest version, that means next to no launchers could update to bypass the blacklist. At the start of the blacklist, our player base dropped to about 8%. Right after that a patch was pushed out to the latest launcher with the update system. As of right now, most public download locations for the launcher are not for the current version with the working update system, but the old broken version that cannot bypass the blacklist, and cannot update. It takes a long time for the new version of the launcher to become standard and spread. Week by week we claim back more players, we are now at around 30-40% and keep growing. It will take a long time to get back to that 100%.

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This brings me to v4. Planning has already started and addresses a lot of the issues I have listed. V4 is a big step that aims to tighten factions and is focused around the community. Please don’t ask questions about it here. I will make another post later on with plans and logic.

 

- raid


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#2
Yawz

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Long live TeamExtreme! :D


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#3
BronyLexicon

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This brings me to v4. Planning has already started and addresses a lot of the issues I have listed. V4 is a big step that aims to tighten factions and is focused around the community. Please don’t ask questions about it here. I will make another post later on with plans and logic.

 

- raid

 

*asks about v4*


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#4
Kunwar

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You've highlighted both your ideas for v3 and their shortcomings, pushing your post into neutrality. I actually didn't see such a transparent post coming, it's good to see that. +1

 

You really did highlight how fragmentation weakened the community, so i will not address that here. The old TE community really was something special which there is none of as of me writing this post. Me, including many others who are still playing or log on occasionally are just to keep in touch with those who still remain here and also to just watch the server we once played on everyday.

 

Now, i haven't played on TE as long as many others have but seeing what i did when i played (late v2), i do think i partially fit in their category to which we may or may not share common thoughts. 

 

Community fragmentation was one of the biggest downfalls however there were some others and so my focus will be on:

 

1. Economy

The current TE economy is very stale. Yes this problem existed the moment food items were not allowed to be sold at the adminsho,p post the ban to pumpkin farms, But there is another issue that just further dealt a blow to how money was being circulated around and that is Player Shops. Before v3, the only meaningful place to have a player shop was outside the /spawn, and it's no exaggeration that those chunks went for huge amounts. v3 did dent their effectiveness by the introduction of 4 new worlds and their corresponding outposts, But what really took out an entire aspect of the economy was the separate world for player shops.

I do understand the advantages of having a separate world for player shops so i am not going to bore you with the pros and cons, but the entire business of buying and selling that they took out was and is still not justified. 

The economy needs to have some changes so that there are more ways to make money than the current few which includes selling donations, mining and selling blocks at mine worlds etc. 

 

(Also, since we are talking about shops, Could there be a change to the adminshop OR Have a separate adminshop for those who prefer to have things closed together, which may not look as good, but is efficient and works without wandering around trying to find the npc for it/ look on the forums for the admin shop npc locations)

 

2. PvP

Yes, this had to be brought up. Now Theophobia_ had previously made a suggestion about this which is here:

 

Click here

 

I will not cover any of the advantages/disadvantages, but i will point out that there is a reason who many of the huge servers did infact remove the cooldown.

 

Now before someone tries to point out that, "Oh Kun12345war_007 you suck at 1.9+ pvp, that's why you're complaining", Note that the old (no cooldown) pvp was much harder than just building muscle memory to click after 1.6 seconds. 

"But oh Kun12345war_007, there is a lot more skill to the current pvp than the old one where you just needed to spam click"

Nope, the old pvp still had strafes and combos which you could do. 

As Theophobia_ pointed out in his thread, the old pvp was much harder than an average minecraft player thinks it is. Note that i mean PvP, this has nothing to do with PvE which buffed the mobs in 1.9+.

 

1.9+ PvP is a numbers game, if you see someone getting attacked by 3 or more players (I am talking enchanted diamond armors and good swords on both ends) surely the person will either die or exit pvp. You cannot do anything in 1.9+ pvp if you are outnumbered

 

"Oh but Kun12345war_007, but i have seen a player winning a 1v2 and a 1v3 in 1.9+ pvp"

Talk numbers, that will rarely ever happen and if so, it will be with asterisks attached.

 

"Oh but Kun12345war_007, 1.9+ pvp is better in 1v1. It has more skill"

TE pvp isn't a 1v1 arena. Most of the times players go in flocks. 1v1s do occur but they're less common, and when they occur, go read Theophobia_'s post on pros and cons. 

 

"Oh but if you got outnumbered in old pvp you would still die"

In Old pvp, You if you were "skilled" enough, you still had a decent chance of quick dropping someone. And it isn't as much of a blue moon as is winning a 2v1 in 1.9+

If you ever played PvP in v2 and saw Theophobia_, if not i'll mention his acts now; He would fight us alone and still get a kill on one of one members. He has survived hugely outnumbered 6v1s in v2 PvP, and i don't mean running away which one would do even if he got 3v1ed currently, but fighting to quick drop some of the opponents and then leaving pvp. But you can't survive if you get outnumbered and want to fight in 1.9. 

 

1.9+ PvP is pathetically boring, if i go into pvp with say 4 sets of diamond armor, i can last pretty long. If you played in the old pvp, you know how easily 4 sets would run out. 

 

Yes there could be an entire debate on this and personally Theo sums the pros and cons up pretty well so it isn't fair relisting them here. You may agree on this, you may disagree but keep in mind that all the big servers did infact remove cooldowns. Yes, i agree that TE is a unqiue server and once really was special for a lot of us however, TE pvp really died for me and many others with the cooldown. If there is a cue to take from other servers, removing the cooldown should be thought of.

 

Now on the verdict of the PvP poll on Thephobia_'s thread, Obviously more votes came in for cooldown but that by no means was a "fair" poll. I'd rather go by what someone who knows PvP and the entire minecraft PvP community in general. You didn't see big servers keeping cooldowns because they understood that.

 

Now i have no idea where the current TE pvp is heading, i was expecting a certain pvp fix which would fix the problem Theophobia_ mentioned, however as it stands as of now, I assume that RaidLands is the new PvP world to fix pvp (if it isn't that, and the fix is coming, ignore this statement), that poses a new problem, it will hit entire section of the economy dedicated to buying and selling armor, pvp related items and further drain down the choices of making money. But however Raidlands has it's own problems.

 

3. RaidLands

If i were to define Raidlands in one line, it would be: A build server without the factions plugin and pvp enabled everywhere.

 

"Oh but Kun12345war_007 it doesn't capture the fact that it has very few plugins" and this and that..

Now that statement is based on playing Raidlands for a couple of hours and it does define what RaidLands really is for a player. Not all players care about how few plugins a server is running. Playing on RaidLands is as much similar to playing on Build but without the factions and with the pvp enabled.

Now let's come to the first shortcoming of raidlands.

(Note: I have no insight on how raidland is planned and this is a player's perspective)

 

a. Unsustainable

RaidLands is tiny. It is an extremely small world. I logged onto RaidLands after a few weeks after it's release (that's when i saw it), and it was very much mined out already.

"Oh but Kun12345war_007, you should've logged when it was released. Don't complain if you were late"

RaidLands isn't supposed to be a server for those who logged on within days of it's released. A new world should be able to sustain new players providing them with resources to start off. Now yes, there will be parts of RaidLands that still aren't mined as hard as other parts are, but how do you expect a player who can randomly go into any direction and start mining to get to the unmined parts? 
As time passes by, RaidLands will have little to no resources left to cater to newcomers or someone who just wants to get more stuff. That is ofcourse being said that there will be no world resets planned.

 

b. Size

Taking cue from the previous point, if RaidLands is to stay, Expand it. For what the server is pitched as, it is tiny and is really not fun playing on.

 

c. RaidLands itself

Now what really is Raidlands ? To define it in one line: A hybrid of an Anarchy server and Factions with an extra bonus of all the Te rules

RaidLands is survival yes i get that. But the name tries to pitch it as an Anarchy server. That is what i thought it was when i read "very few rules" on the introductory post. But it really isn't. Apart from being being awfully tiny and unsustainble, It is a let down. It's name tries to trick one into thinking that it is an Anarchy server by saying very few rules and an Factions server without factions by saying raiding while it falls shorts on both ends. 

 

Now coming onto players, Yes players leave and come. However there is a big difference, that is, the "quality" of players coming and going. Now this can have several factors going into this and the server has very little to do with the "quality" of players but with the current crop of players and the mere number of active staff the server has, isn't it alarming when you think of who will fill in the boots of the inactive staff members? Now i have nothing to do with how promotions are carried out/done but personally, by the "standards set by the old* staff and the old* promotions" , speculating who will regulate the server next isn't pleasing, atleast for me.

 

I understand that my post has no real significance as I have no say in how the server is planned ahead but i am still writing this putting it forward as a Little feedback for what I currently think of the server. I can just hope that this gives insight on how a relatively old player feels currently logging on the server, thus highlighting some of the current shortcomings. Obviously i haven't included many things that should also have been mentioned however, I am short on time and i want to wrap this post up now.

 

~Kun12345war_007

 

* = When i played that is, v2. 

 

P'S 

It would be nice to have a better place than what it is currently, and i personally feel that the feedback old players can give is what the server needs. Many of the old players have seen a community which if compared to now would be very close to ideal, but it is hard choosing whose criticism one should accept.


Edited by Kunwar, 16 November 2017 - 07:33 PM.

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#5
Craft Tech

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I am pretty new to this server joined 5 months ago and ofc in V3 .... Idk I got this server in my server list of my launcher...

I have been noticing these days as raid mentioned and I realize yes ppl do come and leave.. it shall not be an issue in making TE a great unique server with a bit different concept .. as in other faction networks we might not find such beautiful structures that we have in here ...

Talking abt V2 I have never seen it but ppl do say it was awesome ... Well moving to V3 was a great idea and fixed a lot of issues...

There r pros and cons of everything nothing is perfect!

And talking abt V4 I bet we all r waiting for it very eagerly ...

On behalf of TeamExtreme I thank you raidmax for ur awesome thinking about this idea and to all the Staff who helped this server to be What it is Today! Im glad a very unique server like this do exist and more over in a player of TE ...

Once again thank you Staff and we r waiting for new updates on V4

-CraftTech
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#6
Twilight_Ender

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Oh well that's great thing, now I'm excited to see V4.
And wow yeah te is old server.
Now gotta wait till server update to V4 :D
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#7
Astelon

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And I thought I was the only with the impression that v3 removed a lot from factions' importance and simply made them just another asset in a player's collection instead of their home.


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#8
Slateyo

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East or West, TE is da best!


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#9
DarkPilot

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When i saw this topic i was worried that Raidmax will tell "sorry guys, but its time to clole"

I am glad i was wrong.

Not everyone here thinks that TE is dieing. You have our support. Long live TE.

 

I hope v4 won't reset out builds.


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#10
cybben

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looking forward to play in V4 too one day, you do a amazing work raidmax.

 

This is the first server i start play in, and i have actually never leave it for others, not even tryed other servers.

 

Keep the amazing spirit alive :)

 

Edit

 

Not forget all amazing staff that help you on the way, some leave yes, but new pop up :)


Edited by Flox, 17 November 2017 - 12:15 PM.

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#11
Net_Hunterr

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We tried to ignore discord because It’s shit compared to TS


+1 for this :3 and waiting for the details and stuff about v4 :3

#12
ClarkKent123

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2. PvP

Yes, this had to be brought up. Now Theophobia_ had previously made a suggestion about this which is here:

 

Click here

 

I will not cover any of the advantages/disadvantages, but i will point out that there is a reason who many of the huge servers did infact remove the cooldown.

 

Here we go again...PvP is annoying on the server because of the damn food mechanics. The cooldown isn't even that big of a deal. Either way, you click, you kill somebody. I don't see how the cooldowns change the strafing mechanics at all...and there's combos, just do it right...It just sucks when fights last 24 hours because they brought 9999999 steak

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#13
Kunwar

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Here we go again...PvP is annoying on the server because of the damn food mechanics. The cooldown isn't even that big of a deal. Either way, you click, you kill somebody. I don't see how the cooldowns change the strafing mechanics at all...and there's combos, just do it right...It just sucks when fights last 24 hours because they brought 9999999 steak

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1. I made no mentions of strafes changing with cooldowns.

2. There were combos in the old pvp system.

3. Go read Theophobia_'s thread. You will find answers to many of your "arguments" there.

 

4. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. 

Adapting to cooldown is a downgrade, I don't like going downhill on what i already am decent at. Sorry.

 

NOTE: Please don't make this a PvP debate. I already mentioned that you may disagree with my part about the PvP, if you didn't see that go read it. 

 

EDIT: Just making some things Bold.


Edited by Kunwar, 16 November 2017 - 07:51 PM.

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#14
ClarkKent123

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1. I made no mentions of strafes changing with cooldowns.

2. There were combos in the old pvp system.

3. Go read Theophobia_'s thread. You will find answers to many of your "arguments" there.

 

4. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. 

Adapting to cooldown is a downgrade, I don't like going downhill on what i already am decent at. Sorry.

 

NOTE: Please don't make this a PvP debate. I already mentioned that you may disagree with my part about the PvP, if you didn't see that go read it. 

 

EDIT: Just making some things Bold.

So you can say your opinion but I can't say mine :P got it

 

and you did:

 

"But oh Kun12345war_007, there is a lot more skill to the current pvp than the old one where you just needed to spam click"

Nope, the old pvp still had strafes and combos which you could do. 

 


Edited by ClarkKent123, 16 November 2017 - 08:15 PM.

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#15
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time to make a post of my own i guess

gonna turn on proper punctuation, otherwise its gonna be illegible

 

The post you have just written, Raid, was long overdue. And I don't mean V4. What I mean is a public opinion on the social state of the server from the server creator itself. This server is powered by your vision mostly, and speaking up about the issues you see helps shape the behaviour of the community.

That being said, I feel like I should add some perspective of my own. In fact, I'd want this to evolve into a discussion of sorts, having everyone put in their thoughts on the subject. I realise this might be nothing more than a meta discussion with no actual benefits to the current situation of community, but I'm sure good communication could help with the future changes you want to introduce.

 

Factions in our v2 form was quite incredible. We built a massive community on a much smaller player base. This was due to the tight interactions and server cap. To get into TE, you had to be a VIP or REALLY want to play here since we only had 150 player slots and one single server. A player could represent only a single faction at any given time. This built a bond between faction members, like a tight knit guild of friends.

 

I agree with you on this. I cannot speak for V1, as I was not around then, but what made me stick around was exactly this: a close-knit community. Fact is, there was not much to keep me around anyway. I have no artistic talents to speak of, money doesn't really attract me... It was purely the community. This sort of feel you would get upon logging in when you see all the people you know chatting about different topics and just messing around with the sandbox that is MC in various ways... There was never a day without something happening on the server. At least, that's how I remember it. Of course, there was also TS, but I'd like to get to that later.

 

 When I had the most fun in Minecraft, it was right in the beta around 1.7.3 (mc reset to v1.00 after the beta) This was because the Minecraft game and concept was so different, and the players I had been playing with were of a much older age. The game was more like rust back then; you build shit and people would attack it. Minecraft back then had a raw feel, a much different game. If I was to recreate a server of that era today, all and all, it would probably not be anywhere as fun. This is partly because our standard of design has changed and cannot be changed back with what Minecraft is now.

 

This is, from what I see, the motivation behind this post and the server itself. Your intended community structure was very different from what we have now. That's because there's a very important thing that changed in the mean time: the intended population. You see, back when I joined the server, the rules considering communication in general were quite lax: after all, the description of the server was (and still is) "Bitches be crazy". The result of that was as you expected: more mature people were in the spotlight of the community, gathering on TS and creating strong friendships. I'd say this was definitely the golden age of my involvement on the server, with situations I brought up in the last paragraph. You claim V3 was the cause of community dissolving.

 

However, I believe it started even earlier.

 

Why do I think this was the case? Well, to put it in practice, I logged in on V3 just a few times. I remember I went around all the worlds after V3 release, just claiming 8 random chunks near spawn in every world because I figured I'd just log in every once in a while to keep it claimed. I had no intention to actively play even then, I just wanted to see if I would get cash from it after a while. Before that, I ran around to see how V3 looks in beta (and I don't remember being particularly impressed, it felt like more of the same thing). And before that, I'd just occasionally drop in to maybe have a chat with someone, which was rarer and rarer.

What is my theory for this? That would be the community structure I mentioned earlier. As time passed, the MC launcher became more relevant and, as a result, the player base started broadening. But the new players weren't the target population: it was younger people. With time, the server started orienting towards the new audience: PGFilter was added and chat was monitored more tightly. Why this happened, I'm not sure. It doesn't really coincide with your vision. I can assume it was a financial decision, as new players meant more money for the server. Whatever the reason, it started killing the communication. It also moved most conversations to TS, which in turn made the game less interesting, which then, again, made TS less attractive. I want to touch upon TS in a later part of this post, as I mentioned before.

By the end of V2, this progressed far enough to leave a permanent scar in the community. In-game chat was mostly silent, TS had barely anyone on and most people were in their own channels, forums started having less relevant discussions. Paired with the natural flow of people, this led to what we have now.

 

As v3 started to become more than just sketches, I put extra work into planning a network that put extra care on player interaction to fight what I feared and hated about minigame networks. They are hollow places with no player interaction. You go in, play a game and go out. It’s not a place you really make friends and so it doesn't create much of a community. So I planned our systems to fight this. We built the economy, tp, chat, inventories, perms, logins, and much more to all work across all servers, from one to another. As a whole, this did not preserve the factions system as it once was. As we advanced from v2 to v3, we effectively fragmented the community, one server became 4 and even though you could create a faction on all servers, all this really did was make the bond of players in each faction weaker.

 

Just quoting this here to say that V3 was the final nail in the coffin rather than being the end-all. Minigames/PvP/Raidlands/whatever you have now also fragments community due to the fact that competitiveness brings about little reason to connect. PvP system from V2 was much better at this (thanks to the short event duration), even though it was a lot of strain on staff.

 

Next came the fall of TeamSpeak. TS is such a great tool. TE was built around it and a lot of people simply don't understand the impact of what it did for TE. It’s one thing to make a friend in-game, it’s another to talk to them every day in a voice channel with other mates. You form bonds with people you simply cannot, using just in-game chat. Our staff system was built around it. To become staff, you needed to be on TS to even be considered. With the rise of discord, this has done a few things. It formed a new type of text based community and killed most of TeamSpeak. We tried to ignore discord because It’s shit compared to TS, but it grew and became more accessible and easy to use than TS and thus it won out.

 

Aah, Teamspeak... Once the wheel that powered the community, now just a barren wasteland. And I'm not just saying it randomly, because I opened TS to find just 6 people, and on top of that in 2 different channels. Now, someone might say "oh, but that's because everyone switched to Discord"... but they would be wrong. This, too, started some time ago.

Thing is, when I joined TS, there was a lot of activity there. Two great factions of V2 arose from that period: Team420 and Sacks. Why did this work so well? Because most people that would stumble upon one of these factions, either through normal gameplay or through TS, was recruited, providing (in most cases) they could access TE TS. This resulted in several things: more people on TS made it more attractive for people to come and see what's going on, bonds were formed that transcended the game itself, the atmosphere was much more relaxed than elsewhere due to age restrictions. This held on for a while: people started mingling and now it wasn't just about factions anymore. At some point Team420 fell apart thanks to some controversy, Sacks however remained staple for quite some time. However, there was something else going on. Some people have proven to not be what they wanted other people to think, others left due to disinterest in game... But this alone certainly wasn't enough to bring the downfall of TE TS on its own. Problem is, there was a vacuum left behind. There were barely any new people who would join, the old ones partitioned into groups, even the age restriction started having exceptions. As a result, late V2 TS was... not attractive anymore. I used to enjoy coming on and participating in casual and silly conversations. Slowly, that aspect completely evaporated and it felt barren. I would hop in a channel with 10 people, and nobody would utter a word for 10 minutes. In other times, all the people online would be in their separate channel. That would be inconceivable just a year ago! TS was dead long before Discord came along. 

Discord, while lacking the means to force you into voice channel to communicate, has its own good perks. For one, it made me actually come back after a hiatus that was started thanks to the reasons I listed above. I also saw a lot of people on DIscord that were not around for years. I'd say that's an improvement in regards of community. The communication is mostly in chat, but that's what reminds me of the early V2 days, with an actually active chat, unlike the one in the game (it also a proper history so you can always tune in on a convo). Now, you can tune in at any point in time and feel like there's other people willing to discuss the most random topic. Of course, it has its own quirks and illogicalities, but I'd say it's a step up from the dead TS we have.

 

A lot of people say people are leaving or it’s not the same community as it once was,  This true but it’s not the whole story. People come and go, it has always been like this. I can count many friends that I made in v2 and left in v2. People grow up, they get bored, They get a job or new jobs and they move on.

I hope this has shed some light on what I (and possibly others) think is happening. The natural flow that every game has in terms of activity is normal, but there are some other factors that played a role in this. Once again, V3 was just finishing off what has already started before.


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#16
Theophobia_

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have a feelin dis gon be spicy


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#17
Kunwar

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But the new players weren't the target population: it was younger people. With time, the server started orienting towards the new audience: PGFilter was added and chat was monitored more tightly. Why this happened, I'm not sure. It doesn't really coincide with your vision. I can assume it was a financial decision, as new players meant more money for the server.

 

Just quoting this here to say that V3 was the final nail in the coffin rather than being the end-all. Minigames/PvP/Raidlands/whatever you have now also fragments community due to the fact that competitiveness brings about little reason to connect. PvP system from V2 was much better at this (thanks to the short event duration), even though it was a lot of strain on staff

Really Coincided with you on these 2,

 

1. Indeed as many real life examples have shown, whenever if a firm tries to appeal to a broader audience, they often lose their core audience.

 

2. v2 PvP was a lot better, Leaving aside the cooldown; Due to PvP being available for only short durations, Players would go in to it since it was a limited timed event. Everyone would flock into PvP and it would be an active place. 

Due to the short durations, once the event was over, everyone knew that it would be back after some time so that gave people enough time to make/fix their armor, Thus they would want to go into PvP to use the gear they had obtained in the time frame when there was no PvP.


Edited by Kunwar, 16 November 2017 - 08:15 PM.

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#18
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I agree with you guys on PvP because it was more than just people in fights but also the economy that moved with it. The introduction of mending to gear in a market that had been diminishing caused gear sales to go down. Less gear breaking and being lost meant less gear being sold.

As a person who has both TS and Discord and doesn't use either, it's mostly because the interactions there are basically Global from V2.(From the times I was on) V3 was great for when the server was at least half full but after time and circumstances it got stale. The multiple Build worlds also make it harder to recruit faction members because if you don't have one thing in one faction you can just go to another faction in another world and have everything available to you.
That's just my 2 cents though so take it as a grain of salt.

#19
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#20
Fe_Nite

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Factions in our v2 form was quite incredible. We built a massive community on a much smaller player base. This was due to the tight interactions and server cap. To get into TE, you had to be a VIP or REALLY want to play here since we only had 150 player slots and one single server. A player could represent only a single faction at any given time. This built a bond between faction members, like a tight knit guild of friends....

 

...To this day I have never seen any other network come close to building a large factions network.

 

...As v3 started to become more than just sketches, I put extra work into planning a network that put extra care on player interaction to fight what I feared and hated about minigame networks. They are hollow places with no player interaction. You go in, play a game and go out. It’s not a place you really make friends and so it doesn't create much of a community. So I planned our systems to fight this. We built the economy, tp, chat, inventories, perms, logins, and much more to all work across all servers, from one to another. As a whole, this did not preserve the factions system as it once was. As we advanced from v2 to v3, we effectively fragmented the community, one server became 4 and even though you could create a faction on all servers, all this really did was make the bond of players in each faction weaker. Think about it like this: You're playing a game, you have a friends list and a guild. All your friends play with you in this guild and one day that game, now lets you have 4 guilds. Well great, you can now have 4 set of friends? That’s bad, really bad. That tight group of friends just got a hell of a lot weaker and fragmented with less value.

I could not agree more, nor could I have put it better. I thought that having a global chat would prevent this fragmentation but it did not. It most certainly helped, but wasn't enough.

 

I'm looking forward to see what changes come in the future. TE has always been special to me and I want to see it continue to excel.

 

Edit: Added some thoughts.


Edited by Fe_Nite, 24 November 2017 - 09:12 PM.

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